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Post by maddogblues on Jan 10, 2010 10:39:14 GMT -5
Don't try this with Christianity.
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Post by maddogblues on Jan 11, 2010 23:15:24 GMT -5
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Post by freelaw on Feb 18, 2010 13:53:20 GMT -5
Fascinating. I think it's the most fascinating, probably the most important subject in the world. Religion meeting science. I'm going to post on this thread when I'll collect my thoughts better. Posting on ESB may be easier but I guess dicussing these things is worth an effort one has to make. I guess I have a lot to say on the subject. Disputants are kindly invited
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Post by freelaw on Feb 18, 2010 13:59:35 GMT -5
First of all, maddogblues, you must know that Christianity has a long tradition of misticism. There are certain words for certain things that can be easily related to certain words for the same things in Buddhism. You can try the same or almost the same with Christianity I think. It just depends on what you call Christianity. How would you define Christianity?
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Post by maddogblues on Feb 18, 2010 16:20:00 GMT -5
First of all, maddogblues, you must know that Christianity has a long tradition of misticism. There are certain words for certain things that can be easily related to certain words for the same things in Buddhism. You can try the same or almost the same with Christianity I think. It just depends on what you call Christianity. How would you define Christianity? I am just now coming to understand it. My experience with Christianity is in the reformation tradition as a protestant. It does not like mysticism. However Catholicism Roman and Greek Orthodox , Coptic and Gnostic all featured mysticism. I wish I had understood it earlier.
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Post by freelaw on Feb 19, 2010 20:03:12 GMT -5
I am just now coming to understand it. My experience with Christianity is in the reformation tradition as a protestant. It does not like mysticism. However Catholicism Roman and Greek Orthodox , Coptic and Gnostic all featured mysticism. I wish I had understood it earlier. It seems the same with every big religion, even Jews have their Kabala, Islam has it's sufies, you can find the issue in Castaneda's book, I think that it's the same with shamanism also but MDB, would you post what you think about relation between shamanism and Buddhism, do you see one? I always had that view that religions are like maps of different ways to get on one top of the same mountain. The "strange" thing is that lately I feel like headed towards Christianity as something special for some reason. There is a thread in here in which one guy says about his experience with hearing the voice of Jesus. I sympathize with him.
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Post by maddogblues on Feb 19, 2010 21:05:03 GMT -5
I am just now coming to understand it. My experience with Christianity is in the reformation tradition as a protestant. It does not like mysticism. However Catholicism Roman and Greek Orthodox , Coptic and Gnostic all featured mysticism. I wish I had understood it earlier. It seems the same with every big religion, even Jews have their Kabala, Islam has it's sufies, you can find the issue in Castaneda's book, I think that it's the same with shamanism also but MDB, would you post what you think about relation between shamanism and Buddhism, do you see one? I always had that view that religions are like maps of different ways to get on one top of the same mountain. The "strange" thing is that lately I feel like headed towards Christianity as something special for some reason. There is a thread in here in which one guy says about his experience with hearing the voice of Jesus. I sympathize with him. Shamanism and Buddhism. Hard one and I have not thought of it. Let me wing it with the option to change. Buddhism as I understand it postulates origins as a result of consciousness becoming aware and then creative. Shamanism as I understand it refers to touching the elemental aspects of existence and coming to live in harmony with them. I do not see them so much as related, but correlated. Maybe we can develop this more. I see in mystical Christianity the possibility for a world view I can agree with, but not in fundamentalist Christianity which I was raised in.
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Post by freelaw on Feb 20, 2010 5:56:32 GMT -5
The issue is hard. I used to use some amphetamines to restle with it. I felt it was opening my mind. Because normally I usually barely can think about it and it's a kind of 'dry' thinking.
Pantera - 'Floods'. Love the solo in the very end.
A dead issue, don't wrestle with it, deaf ears are sleeping A guilty bliss, so inviting (let me in), nailed to the cross
I feel you, relate to you, accuse you Wash away us all, take us with the floods Then throughout the night, they were raped and executed Cold hearted world Your language unheard of, the vast sound of tuning out The rash of negativity is seen one sidedly, burn away the day
The nervous, the drifting, the heaving Wash away us all, take us with the floods Then throughout the day mankind played with grenades Cold hearted world And at night they might bait the pentagram Extinguishing the sun Wash away man, take him with the floods
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Post by freelaw on Feb 20, 2010 9:17:45 GMT -5
All religions that I mentioned, seem to be somehow based on the conception of 3-level development of man.
1. Pre-personal: animal-like, 'self' does not exist, or 'self is being kind of automattically identified with one's group, like in bees or ants 'community'. Like an infant not recognizing that his mother is anything different than itself.
2. Personal: 'self' is 'born', one recognizes himself as separated, different from the whole rest of the world.
3. Transpersonal - 'self' does and doesn't exist at the same time. It's transgressed. One recognizes his individuality, is 'civilized', and at the same time recognizes everything else as himself on another level. Understands the essential identity of everything incuding himself while being the 'normal' 'himself' in relations to other people. With this awareness hating on someone or something is impossilble.
The 3rd level is the place where religions seem to 'want' to take us. It's still very rare among people. I strongly feel it's another step of evolution that mankind is destinied to make. That way or another. Otherwise we're doomed.
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Post by maddogblues on Feb 20, 2010 11:17:05 GMT -5
All religions that I mentioned, seem to be somehow based on the conception of 3-level development of man. 1. Pre-personal: animal-like, 'self' does not exist, or 'self is being kind of automattically identified with one's group, like in bees or ants 'community'. Like an infant not recognizing that his mother is anything different than itself. 2. Personal: 'self' is 'born', one recognizes himself as separated, different from the whole rest of the world. 3. Transpersonal - 'self' does and doesn't exist at the same time. It's transgressed. One recognizes his individuality, is 'civilized', and at the same time recognizes everything else as himself on another level. Understands the essential identity of everything incuding himself while being the 'normal' 'himself' in relations to other people. With this awareness hating on someone or something is impossilble. The 3rd level is the place where religions seem to 'want' to take us. It's still very rare among people. I strongly feel it's another step of evolution that mankind is destinied to make. That way or another. Otherwise we're doomed. I have been engaging myself with that very idea under the concepts of emptiness found in Buddhism and am just beginning to see corollaries in some of the things that Jesus said. They come through stronger when I understand them through the gnostic interpretation of the passage. What I have just recently understood is that the present for of Christianity was not the first, in fact it exists by virtue of being designed to eradicate its predecessors. It predecessors were 1st and 2nd century Christian beliefs. I wonder a lot what the sayings of Jesus meant to a 1st century mindset.
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Post by freelaw on Feb 20, 2010 11:30:26 GMT -5
Way to go my dear friend - way to go - I think.
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Post by maddogblues on Feb 20, 2010 13:31:13 GMT -5
Way to go my dear friend - way to go - I think. I had like a personal revelation in 2004. I had come to the conclusion that I could no longer believe what I was taught about God. I realized it was just unbelievable to me. However I never gave up a belief in something that I felt was God. I read this. It is what set me free. www.freechristians.com/Robert_D_Brinsmead/the_scandal_of_joshua_ben_adam.htmAfter reading this especially chapter 9 about the resurrection, I was given an understanding. It is this. "The Universe is a friendly place." I simply understood that I was an eternal entity, indestructible. I may be in pain now in this experience but I felt in my heart and still feel as strongly today that this 'revelation' is correct. I have since found that revelation in Buddhism, Hinduism and science and confirmed that what I understood is, if not correct, it is at least believable. I heartily recommend Deepak Chopra. This is another book that opened my eyes. I'm going out to the Columbia River by the mouth where the ocean and river meet. I'll be back in a few hours. Take care.
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Post by freelaw on Feb 20, 2010 15:39:44 GMT -5
I'm off to a night of drinking and watching movies with friends. Check your post tomorrow. Cheers.
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Post by maddogblues on Feb 20, 2010 19:35:40 GMT -5
I'm off to a night of drinking and watching movies with friends. Check your post tomorrow. Cheers. Enjoy.
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Post by freelaw on Feb 25, 2010 15:10:21 GMT -5
Great read about 'Jushua ben Adam'.
Reminds me of the Soto Buddhism idea - the monk's goal is to become JUST A MAN. An 'ordinary man'. To be 'noone' - not even a monk. That's where the practice leads.
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